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COSTS PER YEAR: 150€[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Pixel
Donated: 75€

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 [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"

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NPanic

NPanic

Anzahl der Beiträge : 331
Anmeldedatum : 2020-01-23
Alter : 23

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySat 08 Feb 2020, 12:18 am

This project has been merged with the 1967 World Sportscar Championship Mod and the Alfa has been updated in that mod: https://www.evolution-modding.net/t2513-wip-1967-world-sportscar-championship-mod


Last edited by NPanic on Sun 13 Dec 2020, 9:35 pm; edited 6 times in total
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joeschmoe
Premium Member
Premium Member
joeschmoe

Anzahl der Beiträge : 1793
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-24
Ort : Laguna Seca

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySat 08 Feb 2020, 1:19 am

Lokkin' very nice so far................
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fatguts

fatguts

Anzahl der Beiträge : 831
Anmeldedatum : 2016-02-23
Ort : In my other Shed

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PostSubject: [WIP] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopica/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySat 08 Feb 2020, 11:15 am

A very good piece of work looking forward to having it in game thumbup2
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drionita



Anzahl der Beiträge : 339
Anmeldedatum : 2010-10-10

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySat 08 Feb 2020, 11:26 am

That's a helluva first post! Welcome and thank you for this project!
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GeeDee
Premium Member
Premium Member
GeeDee

Anzahl der Beiträge : 4027
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-23
Alter : 72
Ort : 1 hour from Croft and enough distance from Rick & Ney

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySat 08 Feb 2020, 1:17 pm

Great stuff and well done for learning to do this, keep up the excellent work. cheers Punk :w00t:
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marco1990



Anzahl der Beiträge : 45
Anmeldedatum : 2017-12-22

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySat 08 Feb 2020, 3:52 pm

oh yes this version is very great GPL4EVER
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NPanic

NPanic

Anzahl der Beiträge : 331
Anmeldedatum : 2020-01-23
Alter : 23

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySun 09 Feb 2020, 12:25 am

Thanks for the kind words people, here is some more progress: headlights, brakelights, new rim and light tex and some other stuff (finishing the basic exterior pretty much)..
More stuff to come next weekend hopefully Very Happy

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_016

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_021

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_020

*btw fixed this weird taillight shadow Laughing
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jeannomiller
Admin
jeannomiller

Anzahl der Beiträge : 2632
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-22
Ort : Germany

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySun 09 Feb 2020, 4:16 pm

Great stuff GOOD

_________________
So long.

Jeannomiller
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alex12

alex12

Anzahl der Beiträge : 337
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-23

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 8:07 am

Looks really good... Twisted Evil

Keep up the great work !!!
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NPanic

NPanic

Anzahl der Beiträge : 331
Anmeldedatum : 2020-01-23
Alter : 23

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 12:17 pm

*Im writing this more for myself than anything else  Very Happy skins i have to make:

The car was raced in 1967 in the:
12h of Sebring:
#65 driven by Andrea De Adamich and Teodoro Zeccoli
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Tn_seb10

#66 driven by Roberto Bussinello and Nanni Galli
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Tn_seb11

Nurburgring 1000km:
#20 driven by Andrea De Adamich and Nanni Galli
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Tn_nur10

#21 driven by Giacomo "Geki" Russo and Giancarlo Baghetti
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Tn_nur11

#22 driven by Roberto Bussinello and Teodoro Zeccoli
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Tn_nur12

Targa Florio:
#192 driven by Nani Galli and Ignazio Giunti
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Tn_tar10

#170 driven by Andrea De Adamich and Jean Rolland
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" 170-an10

#190 driven by Jo Bonnier and Giancarlo Baghetti
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Fa607810

#200 driven by Giacomo "Geki" Russo and Nino Todaro
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Alfa2010

The car was also raced in Mugello, but in a different configuration (basically a "langheck/longtail" like the Porsches, or should i say "coda lunga" to be unnecessarily italian  Laughing ) so i wont be making that now.

It was entered at Le Mans, but didnt start the race.

Some remarks about the caractheristics of the car: the fuel-injected 90 degree 2.0L flatplane crank V8 made 270hp at 9600RPM, the gearbox was a Colotti 6 speed (which is amazing for the time), the car weighed around 580kg dry, and although it looks smooth and is very light, the top speed is speculated to only be somewhere around 265kp/h due to the "periscope" intake creating drag and also some front end lift at high speeds. Since there are no wings on the car or the .HDC file, i used the "RadiatorLift" to simulate the lift caused by the periscope. At speeds above 150kp/h this can cause some understeer mid corner, followed by some snap oversteer due to the cars balance being at the rear, so the car keeps you awake while sliding, which is very fun indeed. But while being slidey its still very pointy and nimble which i think simulates the small size of the thing pretty nicely. It also stops very well thanks to the small weight and 4 disc brakes. Weight can increase though thanks to the twin 98litre fuel tanks integrated into the H pattern aluminium chassis. However the prototype 2L regulations of the time would not allow teams to run more than 100kg of fuel. I couldnt find information about the gearing, but i made some 4 final drive settings which make sense and go from 240kp/h theoretical top speed to 280kp/h. Even though the top speed is a bit lacking compared to the 2L Porsche prototypes, the Alfa will leave them in its dust when accelerating out of a corner with its stronger engine and more gears.

In real life the car was plagued with suspension failures. I will need to find a way to simulate this, but not to the point where it ruins the experience. Any suggestions would be welcome. The setup is double wishbone + anti-roll bar front and lower wishbone/top links + anti-roll bar rear.
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WHIPCRACKER

WHIPCRACKER

Anzahl der Beiträge : 271
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-23
Alter : 68

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PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 4:03 pm

Wow---you have really done your homework and the description of the handling characteristics make perfect sense. I'm not sure whether I would try to emulate suspension failures in GTR2 as , frankly, even though I've done physics for years, I don't know how to do that.
This should be a very exciting car when you are done.  Nice to have you aboard and committed.

DRAGON

P.S.---what physics program are you going to use to create the handling ---I'm still using Kangaloosh.
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NPanic

NPanic

Anzahl der Beiträge : 331
Anmeldedatum : 2020-01-23
Alter : 23

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 4:17 pm

WHIPCRACKER wrote:
Wow---you have really done your homework and the description of the handling characteristics make perfect sense. I'm not sure whether I would try to emulate suspension failures in GTR2 as , frankly, even though I've done physics for years, I don't know how to do that.
This should be a very exciting car when you are done.  Nice to have you aboard and committed.

DRAGON

P.S.---what physics program are you going to use to create the handling ---I'm still using Kangaloosh.

Thank you, thats what i was thinking as well, i remember from some rFactor physics work i did that there isnt really any obvious way to make the suspension fail without contact. So i suppose its the same for GTR2 with the 2 sharing the ISImotor engine.
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WHIPCRACKER

WHIPCRACKER

Anzahl der Beiträge : 271
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-23
Alter : 68

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 6:16 pm

This might not be a popular opinion but I'd be a little careful of ABLMS base physics as I have had to change a lot of them ---really look at all parameters---tires included as , if I remember---they are way too sticky---period-wise.
Don't get me wrong---Great mod for models but in order for cars to perform properly with realistic top speeds etc. due diligence is necessary.
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NPanic

NPanic

Anzahl der Beiträge : 331
Anmeldedatum : 2020-01-23
Alter : 23

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 6:47 pm

WHIPCRACKER wrote:


P.S.---what physics program are you going to use to create the handling ---I'm still using Kangaloosh.

Sorry didnt see the P. S.

Well i was gonna use the suspension editor 2 but i cant find it anymore since RfactorCentral is down, so i guess Notepad will do... Or maybe some more digging around the old forums.
Ye Kangaloosh Car Factory Very Happy

Easy Engine Editor (the last place on the internet where i could find it):
https://xtremefactor.es/downs/download.html?archivo=http://www.descargas.xtremefactor.es/rFactor/plugins_rFactor/PhysicsEditor1_88A.zip

Did some fiddling in it:
Alfa Romeo T33 Stradale Torque and Power curve:
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Alfa_310

My engine data in the Engine Editor:
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Alfa_e10

Cant get much more realistic than that afro



Last edited by NPanic on Mon 10 Feb 2020, 8:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NPanic

NPanic

Anzahl der Beiträge : 331
Anmeldedatum : 2020-01-23
Alter : 23

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 6:51 pm

WHIPCRACKER wrote:
This might not be a popular opinion but I'd be a little careful of ABLMS base physics as I have had to change a lot of them ---really look at all parameters---tires included as , if I remember---they are way too sticky---period-wise.
Don't get me wrong---Great mod for models but in order for cars to perform properly with realistic top speeds etc. due diligence is necessary.

Well being unpopular doesnt make it less true Laughing

You are right, thats why i asked BorekS for permission to use tyres from his LMC mod. He granted it. I will also have to fiddle around with suspension travel and other stuff for my Alfa since the ABLMS one is way too stiff and F1 car like..
I actually converted the 1967 ABLMS season to GTL a couple of months back and i had to change every single cars physics in order to make it feel realistic and competitive with LMC (the ABLMS cars are way too fast and stable).
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DarkSide

DarkSide

Anzahl der Beiträge : 437
Anmeldedatum : 2011-03-23
Alter : 24
Ort : Bucharest

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 8:20 pm

I see they played around a lot with the front of the car. The outboard air inlets (below the headlights) changed shape a number of times and they were even deleted... Then the front grille itself was also slightly altered throughout the year, then they introduced the big, T33/2-esque headlights... And the rear deck evolved too. The first long tail seen at Le Mans partially covered the rear wheels and the periscopio was gone but, by the final hillclimbs of the year, a long tail that went around and over the rear wheels was devised and that was eventually used on the T33/2.

Here is the short-tail with the big headlights in July '67, but this setup was first seen at Rossfeld
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" 750_Claudy24

and here is the later season longtail setup but with the smaller headlights
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" 750_Claudy32

You can read more here> http://www.robertlittle.us/t33chronologygerman.html
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NPanic

NPanic

Anzahl der Beiträge : 331
Anmeldedatum : 2020-01-23
Alter : 23

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 8:43 pm

DarkSide wrote:
I see they played around a lot with the front of the car. The outboard air inlets (below the headlights) changed shape a number of times and they were even deleted... Then the front grille itself was also slightly altered throughout the year, then they introduced the big, T33/2-esque headlights... And the rear deck evolved too. The first long tail seen at Le Mans partially covered the rear wheels and the periscopio was gone but, by the final hillclimbs of the year, a long tail that went around and over the rear wheels was devised and that was eventually used on the T33/2.

Here is the short-tail with the big headlights in July '67, but this setup was first seen at Rossfeld
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" 750_Claudy24

and here is the later season longtail setup but with the smaller headlights
[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" 750_Claudy32

You can read more here> http://www.robertlittle.us/t33chronologygerman.html

Thanks for the info, i was aware of some of these modifications. I might try to make them in the future, but for now the Periscopio is more than enoguh labour Razz
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WHIPCRACKER

WHIPCRACKER

Anzahl der Beiträge : 271
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-23
Alter : 68

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyMon 10 Feb 2020, 9:19 pm

Cool---I'm using Tom's Engine Shop and Kangaloosh---in order for Kangaloosh to work I had to stop all Windows updates about 2 1/2 years ago otherwise it would not load.
Keep on going. BorekS is a great guy---great job on the Lemans Classics.
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NPanic

NPanic

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[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyWed 12 Feb 2020, 1:32 pm

Great news! I got the green light from BorekS of the LMClassics mod, Antonio from the ABLMS and from Ginetto and his team from the GPL mod to use the stuff i requested and listed in this post.
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jeannomiller
Admin
jeannomiller

Anzahl der Beiträge : 2632
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-22
Ort : Germany

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyWed 12 Feb 2020, 1:55 pm

Great news indeed! GOOD

_________________
So long.

Jeannomiller
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Zexer



Anzahl der Beiträge : 203
Anmeldedatum : 2016-08-20
Alter : 27

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyWed 12 Feb 2020, 6:31 pm

If you need skins done, I've painted them all for the 33 Stradale a few years ago and I could easily remake them for your model instead, if you want. Great to be finally able to have a Periscopica.
https://www.evolution-modding.net/t893p225-alfa-romeo-33-stradale?highlight=alfa+romeo
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NPanic

NPanic

Anzahl der Beiträge : 331
Anmeldedatum : 2020-01-23
Alter : 23

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptyWed 12 Feb 2020, 9:46 pm

Zexer wrote:
If you need skins done, I've painted them all for the 33 Stradale a few years ago and I could easily remake them for your model instead, if you want. Great to be finally able to have a Periscopica.
https://www.evolution-modding.net/t893p225-alfa-romeo-33-stradale?highlight=alfa+romeo

Hmm well, thank you for the offer, there are quite a few details (for example the front intake being different on almost every skin and i wont be modelling the "holes" into the models because i dont think its worth it having to make 3 or more different models which takes time and space in the .gtr file so that will have to be done visually on the skins, also badges, logos, etc..) which would need special attention, so i would have to make at least 3 different templates. Will see, if i need any help ill let you know. So far im good, still need to rework the mesh, add details like belts, fuel caps, badges, which will take me 2 days at least, so expect an update on the skins situation on sunday or monday.
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NPanic

NPanic

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Anmeldedatum : 2020-01-23
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[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySat 15 Feb 2020, 2:50 am

So, im finally home and i had a very busy evening, so here are the fruits of todays work: i basically redid the whole mesh, many textures, updated the wheels, all in all A LOT of appearance work. Fixed the weird shadow thing, added a 3D logo/badge, exhaust mounts, clear headlights etc.. etc..:  

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_023

Now, i need some stylistic advice, should i keep it kinda "matte" or go gloss:

Matte:

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_024

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_025

Gloss:

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_026

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_027

I personally like the gloss style more, but it wont really go hand in hand with BorekS LMC mod so that may be a little concern..

Also beware! If you crash, you might loose your lights Wink

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_028

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Grab_029

The headlights (tape or no tape) and wheel color will change depending on the skin.

Some may notice that i also removed the mirrors, for now. Thats because the car had 2 variations of mirrors, the one that came with the model, and the "mirror on a stick" as i call it, which can be seen in the reference pics above. I will make both variations.
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bonnier

bonnier

Anzahl der Beiträge : 375
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Ort : Stockholm, Sweden

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySat 15 Feb 2020, 12:19 pm

Looking great! I would say go gloss as it doesn't look overdone judging by your pics.
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marco1990



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Anmeldedatum : 2017-12-22

[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" EmptySat 15 Feb 2020, 4:52 pm

very good
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[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty
PostSubject: Re: [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"   [WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron" Empty

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[WIP/RELEASE] Alfa Romeo T33 "Periscopio/Fleron"
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