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COSTS PER YEAR: 150€F1 1984 Mod? Pixel
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 F1 1984 Mod?

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Jagdpanzer
jeannomiller
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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
Anmeldedatum : 2018-12-31
Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyMon 28 Mar 2022, 6:56 am

I downloaded a F1 1984 mod from Trackaholics recently, but for the life of me can't get it to function properly. It's supposed to be a straight convert from Rfactor, but the AI cars refuse to leave the pit stalls under any circumstance, though the cams show them mightily trying to do so. If you load a track with no pit stalls occasionally a AI car will get on the circuit, but it never shifts out of first gear - as if the pit speed limiter is staying on. Finally the player car doesn't recognize 5th gear. On autoshift it will run through 1-4,but ignores 5th gear. The car models, cockpits, and sounds are all excellent, but playability for me is nil because of the other problems.

Does anyone have any ideas how to sort these issues out? It strikes me that with a bit of work this could be a fine mod, I just don't know where to start to try to fix the problems! Shocked
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kk08




Anzahl der Beiträge : 131
Anmeldedatum : 2010-11-20

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyMon 28 Mar 2022, 5:47 pm

I don't want to be disrespectful
Wouldn't make more sense asking this on the trackaholics forum where you got the mod?

jeannomiller and Vanaja like this post

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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
Anmeldedatum : 2018-12-31
Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyMon 28 Mar 2022, 7:51 pm

kk08 wrote:
I don't want to be disrespectful
Wouldn't make more sense asking this on the trackaholics forum where you got the mod?

I did. Weeks ago. Not a single response. I posted here because unlike that forum, folks usually try to help you sort out any issues you might have. I also hoped that someone else here might have encountered the mod and have some knowledge of it's problems...
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fatguts

fatguts


Anzahl der Beiträge : 922
Anmeldedatum : 2016-02-23
Ort : In my other Shed

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyTue 29 Mar 2022, 8:39 am

If the Mod did not work its unusual for it to be posted if no one else is moaning about it, its probably ok

Can you post a link to the mod because I cant find it on trackaholics and I will try it thumbup
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joeschmoe
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joeschmoe


Anzahl der Beiträge : 1905
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-24
Ort : Laguna Seca

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyTue 29 Mar 2022, 3:34 pm

I didn't see it either...........





What does the trace file say........?
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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
Anmeldedatum : 2018-12-31
Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyTue 29 Mar 2022, 10:50 pm

The mod is actually discussed in this thread: https://trackaholics.forumotion.com/t3438-project-f1-historic-wip

The download link for the mod is: https://www.mediafire.com/file/34ah8a6j19o6w49/F1_1984.rar/file
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fatguts

fatguts


Anzahl der Beiträge : 922
Anmeldedatum : 2016-02-23
Ort : In my other Shed

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyWed 30 Mar 2022, 12:09 am

Make sure you have the common shared files installed.
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joeschmoe
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joeschmoe


Anzahl der Beiträge : 1905
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-24
Ort : Laguna Seca

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyWed 30 Mar 2022, 2:46 am

It's the #16 Renault car. Remove the 16 from the cas line, and the 16 from the Manufacturer line in the Warwick car file, it will fire right up.......
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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
Anmeldedatum : 2018-12-31
Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyWed 30 Mar 2022, 6:22 am

Common files consist of the 1984M.GTR only correct? And this goes in the teams folder, yes? And joeschmoe, I'm not exactly sure WHICH line in the cas file for the #16 Renault  you are talking about. I removed #16  from the Manufacturer line in the Warwick car file, but this made no difference.

I could already select any of the cars and drive them, but the AI cars still refuse to leave the pits, those that do only travel the circuit in 1st gear, and when playing with auto shift in the sim it only recognizes gears 1-4, no 5th gear. That's not that big of a deal, as I can always shift into 5th myself, but curious why this happens only in this mod?
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jeannomiller
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jeannomiller


Anzahl der Beiträge : 2832
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-22
Ort : Germany

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyWed 30 Mar 2022, 8:51 am

Jagdpanzer wrote:
The mod is actually discussed in this thread: https://trackaholics.forumotion.com/t3438-project-f1-historic-wip

The download link for the mod is: https://www.mediafire.com/file/34ah8a6j19o6w49/F1_1984.rar/file

It's one of freeracers mods. He left the scene some time ago. Sad

_________________
So long.

Jeannomiller
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joeschmoe
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joeschmoe


Anzahl der Beiträge : 1905
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-24
Ort : Laguna Seca

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyWed 30 Mar 2022, 11:15 am

swapped in an '88 Ferrari engine, worked fine. It's the idle logic or something in the engine files, tried higher values, nothing yet......

Jagdpanzer likes this post

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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
Anmeldedatum : 2018-12-31
Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyThu 31 Mar 2022, 5:58 am

joeschmoe wrote:
swapped in an '88 Ferrari engine, worked fine. It's the idle logic or something in the engine files, tried higher values, nothing yet......

I thought it might something like that with the inner workings of the engine files. Wish I knew more about how that stuff works... scratch
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fatguts

fatguts


Anzahl der Beiträge : 922
Anmeldedatum : 2016-02-23
Ort : In my other Shed

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyThu 31 Mar 2022, 10:22 am

Normally if a car wont leave the pit box there is not enough engine torque to let them pull away.

Use Toms engine shop utility to adjust it.

Just google it you will find it.

Punk
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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
Anmeldedatum : 2018-12-31
Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyThu 31 Mar 2022, 9:56 pm

Ok, after some more driving, 5th gear IS there in autoshift, just a veeeery long 4th before the revs get high enough for 5th to kick in, so manual shift is the way to go in this mod.

fatguts, I downloaded and have been playing around with Toms Engine Shop a bit. I've adjusted the very leftmost data point on the torque curve to see if I could get the AI out of the pits, but no change so far. Its still early days for me with this Toms Engine Shop though. I'm gonna continue trying to adjust the lower end of the torque curve to see if eventually the AI cars will leave the pit stalls....
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joeschmoe
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joeschmoe


Anzahl der Beiträge : 1905
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-24
Ort : Laguna Seca

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyFri 01 Apr 2022, 2:17 pm

They will, I went silly high just to see if that was the issue, tested on the Arrows, works fine. It might be easier/quicker to just swap in a different engine.....
F1 1984 Mod? Arroes10
F1 1984 Mod? Arrows10
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commodore




Anzahl der Beiträge : 21
Anmeldedatum : 2013-02-24

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyFri 01 Apr 2022, 8:43 pm

AI needs two negative spots at 250 and 500 rpm to start and leave the pit stalls.
I can adjust it for you, if you send the file.
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joeschmoe
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joeschmoe


Anzahl der Beiträge : 1905
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-24
Ort : Laguna Seca

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptyFri 01 Apr 2022, 9:28 pm

This sounds like the right answer...........
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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
Anmeldedatum : 2018-12-31
Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptySat 02 Apr 2022, 5:43 am

commodore wrote:
AI needs two negative spots at 250 and 500 rpm to start and leave the pit stalls.
I can adjust it for you, if you send the file.

//BMW M 12/13 Straight 4
RPMTorque=( 0.0, -35.0, -35.0)
RPMTorque=( 500.0, -47.2, -10.Cool
RPMTorque=( 1000.0, -63.9, 11.3)
RPMTorque=( 1500.0, -74.9, 35.1)
RPMTorque=( 2000.0, -85.9, 58.6)
RPMTorque=( 2500.0, -99.0, 79.2)
RPMTorque=( 3000.0, -103.4, 108.3)
RPMTorque=( 3500.0, -112.2, 132.3)
RPMTorque=( 4000.0, -120.9, 158.0)
RPMTorque=( 4500.0, -125.3, 192.3)
RPMTorque=( 5000.0, -134.1, 224.9)
RPMTorque=( 5500.0, -142.8, 257.5)
RPMTorque=( 6000.0, -149.4, 293.5)
RPMTorque=( 6500.0, -151.6, 341.6)
RPMTorque=( 7000.0, -158.2, 399.9)
RPMTorque=( 7500.0, -158.2, 441.0)
RPMTorque=( 8000.0, -169.5, 459.9)
RPMTorque=( 8500.0, -179.8, 466.Cool
RPMTorque=( 9000.0, -188.4, 459.9)
RPMTorque=( 9500.0, -200.4, 449.6)
RPMTorque=( 10000.0, -215.8, 417.0)
RPMTorque=( 10500.0, -233.0, 372.4)
RPMTorque=( 11000.0, -250.1, 295.3)
RPMTorque=( 11500.0, -279.3, 187.2)
RPMTorque=( 12000.0, -310.2, 39.7)
RPMTorque=( 12500.0, -353.0, -133.5)
RPMTorque=( 13000.0, -421.6, -300.3)
FuelConsumption=4.760e-005          
FuelEstimate=1.020                
EngineInertia=0.0810                
IdleThrottle=0.55                    
IdleRPMLogic=(2600.0, 2800.0)                  
LaunchRPMLogic=(7500.0, 9500.0)  
RevLimitRange=(11000.0, 200.0, 1)
RevLimitSetting=1
RevLimitLogic=0.0                
RevLimitAvailable=0                
EngineMapRange=(0, 0, 0)          
EngineMapSetting=0
EngineBoostRange=(0.0, 1.0, Cool
EngineBoostSetting=1
BoostEffects=(0.0, 0.005, 0.65) // RPM increase per setting, fuel increase (1%) per setting, engine wear rate (5.2%) per setting
BoostTorque=0.000001               // 0.4% less torque per setting (applies to all RPMs)
BoostPower=0.0025               // % more horsepower per setting          
EngineBrakingMapRange=(0.0, 0.000133, 5)
EngineBrakingMapSetting=3              
OptimumOilTemp=105.0                
CombustionHeat=50.0                
EngineSpeedHeat=2.200e-003          
OilMinimumCooling=9.100e-004      
OilWaterHeatTransfer=(7.500e-003,9.800e-005)
WaterMinimumCooling=2.300e-003    
RadiatorCooling=(1.600e-003, 3.100e-004)  
LifetimeEngineRPM=(10250.0,90.0)
LifetimeOilTemp=(116.0,0.40)    
LifetimeAvg=8400                
LifetimeVar=0                    
EngineEmission=(0.0, 0.50, 0.0)    
EngineSound=(0.0, 0.50, 0.0)      
SpeedLimiter=0                      
OnboardStarter=1

Posted the Arrows engine file here. Could you show us which two spots to edit?
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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
Anmeldedatum : 2018-12-31
Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptySat 02 Apr 2022, 6:53 am

Lots of experimentation this evening. I tried editing the torque curve for all the 84 teams with Toms Engine Shop. Got them adjusted where the AI cars would exit the pits at SOME tracks, but not at '88 Hockenheim, which is where I am doing most of the testing for this mod. They would leave the pits at '88 Monaco, but after doing so again would circle the track in first gear, never shifting or attempting to get a timed lap in.

SO next, I swapped the engine files from the F1 1985 mod to their appropriate cars on the F1 '84 mod. After doing this, most of the AI cars WOULD leave the pit stalls, but again, would not shift out of first gear. After swapping the engine files I tried to get in a timed lap. Now the PLAYER car would not shift out of first, as the gears seemed all wrong for the engine. No matter which gear I selected the car would immediately get on the rev limiter. Even copied over the gear files from the '85 F1 mod, but still, the same issue with the players car immediately getting on the rev limiter.

Finally I went back to the original '84 mod files. Now I could get in a normal lap in the player car, but all AI cars reverted to the old behavior of not being able to leave the pits.

I don't know how crazy I need to go with Toms Engine builder on the torque curve, apparently the values need to be much higher that what I used, But then again, why wont the AI cars do a timed lap in free practice? Could there be something in the HDC files that would address this?
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kk08




Anzahl der Beiträge : 131
Anmeldedatum : 2010-11-20

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptySat 02 Apr 2022, 1:16 pm

I rephrase what commodore said. The torque is too weak at low rpms. It depends on gearbox, engine and terrain inclination.
Just copy the rpmtorque lines from 0 to 1000 rpm from a working car and you should fix your problems.

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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
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Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptySun 03 Apr 2022, 8:47 am

kk08 wrote:
I rephrase what commodore said. The torque is too weak at low rpms. It depends on gearbox, engine and terrain inclination.
Just copy the rpmtorque lines from 0 to 1000 rpm from a working car and you should fix your problems.

Did this. Substituted the rpmtorque lines from 0 to 1000 rpm from a mod I visually checked to make certain all cars would leave the pit stalls. No luck, AI cars in the '84 F1 mod remain stuck in pit stalls unable to exit during free practice sessions....
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joeschmoe
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joeschmoe


Anzahl der Beiträge : 1905
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-24
Ort : Laguna Seca

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptySun 03 Apr 2022, 5:35 pm

It would be better to just use some engines from a different car. These engines are all down a couple of hundred hp anyways. Didn't F1 cars make 750-850 hp in 1984? One car has a 4cyl when it really ran a V6, etc. There are enough engines out there to get the right configuration......I4, V6, V8.......
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Jagdpanzer




Anzahl der Beiträge : 27
Anmeldedatum : 2018-12-31
Ort : Georgia, USA, near Road Atlanta

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptySun 03 Apr 2022, 7:32 pm

joeschmoe wrote:
It would be better to just use some engines from a different car. These engines are all down a couple of hundred hp anyways. Didn't F1 cars make 750-850 hp in 1984? One car has a 4cyl when it really ran a V6, etc. There are enough engines out there to get the right configuration......I4, V6, V8.......

Ideally, yes. The engine files in the 84 mod are all based off the BMW inline 4 cylinder turbo, which only Arrows and Brabham ran as far as I know, so they are far from accurate. But when I swapped the engine files from the 85 mod to this one, it made the player car undriveable.

I'm close to throwing in the towel on this one. There is something in the mod keeping the AI cars on the pit speed limiter or keeping them from upshifting anyway if they DO get on track. I haven't been able to track it down, and am gettting pretty frustrated with it honestly... Crying or Very sad
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fatguts

fatguts


Anzahl der Beiträge : 922
Anmeldedatum : 2016-02-23
Ort : In my other Shed

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptySun 03 Apr 2022, 8:13 pm

To prove a point stick an engine from any really powerful car a panoz or a viper into the mod and see what happens.

Its the engines that are wrong.
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commodore




Anzahl der Beiträge : 21
Anmeldedatum : 2013-02-24

F1 1984 Mod? Empty
PostSubject: Re: F1 1984 Mod?   F1 1984 Mod? EmptySun 03 Apr 2022, 9:46 pm

It's not enough just to swap the engine, the gearbox and the ratios have to be adjusted.
I'll download the mod and take a look at it. Give me two or three days.

Edit: Can't find it at trackaholics, do you have a link?


Last edited by commodore on Sun 03 Apr 2022, 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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