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COSTS PER YEAR: 150€Early 60s GTs Pixel
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 Early 60s GTs

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Damon Myrax

Damon Myrax

Anzahl der Beiträge : 31
Anmeldedatum : 2013-03-24
Ort : UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptyMon 25 May 2020, 11:41 am

Hi

I've come back to GTR and GTL and have been doing a bit of modding; mostly just stuff around physics and rcd files from existing mods and just for my own local setup (not online). My interest is GT cars from the early 60s and was wondering if anyone else here is doing anything similar and wanted to share ideas or collaborate on some stuff

DM
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Damon Myrax

Damon Myrax

Anzahl der Beiträge : 31
Anmeldedatum : 2013-03-24
Ort : UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 1:59 pm

I will be forever grateful to the many people on this community and others like it for sharing their work bringing new (old) cars and tracks to existing games and like many I have taken these and modified them further to create a sim racing world specific to my own area of interest, which in my case is GT racing in the early 60s.

Most of what I have done is built on other people's original work so is for personal use but I wanted to tell people what I have been doing as some of it may be of interest to others and also if possible I'd like to give something back to the community.

In summary I have tried to create the GT racing scene from the years 1960 to 1964 in GTR2 where each year can be raced with the cars, drivers and teams that raced in period. I've split each year into three six-round championships: British GTs; FIA GT Cup and the World Endurance Series which includes prototypes and extends the FIA GT Cup to 12 rounds.

This project isn't complete; I am currently testing 1962 having completed 1960 and 1961 but am still finding things that need adding back into the earlier years.

I'm going to break this down into several posts to make it easier to refer to (I should mention that another reason for posting this is to help me document what I have done).
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Damon Myrax

Damon Myrax

Anzahl der Beiträge : 31
Anmeldedatum : 2013-03-24
Ort : UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 2:02 pm

CHAMPIONSHIPS

British GT Championship:
This is over 6 rounds of 25 minutes race duration, grid size 20-24
R1: Snetterton (Lombank Trophy)
R2: Goodwood (Fordwater Trophy)
R3: Aintree (Aintree 200 Meeting)
R4: Oulton Park (Gold Cup Meeting)
R5: Silverstone (International Trophy)
R6: Brands Hatch (Redex Trophy)

World Endurance Championship:
This is over 6 rounds of typically 12 or 24 hours duration (I run on 10x acceleration), grid size 36-50 cars (includes sports/GT prototypes)
R1: Daytona (1000kms/24 hours)
R2: Sebring (12hrs)
R3: Monza 10K (1000kms di Monza)
R4: Nurburgring (ADAC 1000kms )
R5: Le Mans (24 Heures du Mans)
R6: Reims (12hrs)

FIA GT Cup (series also includes World Endurance rounds):
This is over 6 rounds of 4 hours duration (I run on 4x acceleration), grid size 24 to 40 cars
R1: Spa-Francorchamps (GP de Spa)
R2: Rouen-Les-Essarts (GP de Rouen)
R3: Charade (Trophee d'Auvergne)
R4: Goodwood (Tourist Trophy)
R5: Monza (Coppa Inter Europa)
R6: Bridgehampton (Bridgehampton 500)

I tried using the GTR2 Championship Manager tool to create these as individual championships but have found several conflicts such as missing cockpit dials and points not adding correctly so am continuing to work on this. In the meantime I have written a simple script in Excel to process the raceresults text file although this sometimes gets thrown if the results file outputs in race mode 6 instead of race mode 3 and I haven't been able to find and references to this online.
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Damon Myrax

Damon Myrax

Anzahl der Beiträge : 31
Anmeldedatum : 2013-03-24
Ort : UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 2:05 pm

CARS

There are a fantastic number of car mods available now so I have used ones from PnG and GTL and since I discovered the list of Marian's mods on here a month or so back I have been able to fill most of the gaps.

I like the cars to look as close as possible to as they would have been but not to the point where I miss out key entries, so for example I have used the Porsche 356B standard car to represent the Abarth coupes and I have used existing skins where I don't know what the original colours were. I have done a few extra skins but my skills in graphics are poor, so it's limited to not much more that adding saturation layers to change colour or similar simple changes. Protheroe's CUT7 E-Type is a case in point where I have made simple colour changes, but they are enough to distinguish the car on track.

Cars I have included in my set up to 1962 are (dates in bracket are the first year available, not the only year they appear):

GT >2.5L
Aston Martin DB4GT (1960)
Aston Martin DB4GT Zagato (1961)
Austin-Healey 3000 (1960)
Chevrolet Corvette C1 283 (1960)
Chevrolet Corvette C1 327 (1962)
Ferrari 250GT SWB (1960)
Ferrari 250GT SWB Comp (1961)
Ferrari 250GTO (1962)
Jaguar XKE Coupe (1961)
Jaguar XKE Roadster (1961) - includes L/W

GT <2.5L
AC Ace-Bristol (1960)
MG A (1960)
MG A Twin Cam (1960)
Porsche 356 Carrera Abarth (1960) - uses standard 356B model
Porsche 356 1600GS (1960)
Porsche 356 2000GS (1961)
Triumph TR3A (1960)
Triumph TR4 (1962)
TVR Grantura MG (1960)

GT <1.3L
Alfa Romeo Giulietta SZ (1962)
Austin-Healey Sprite (1960)
Lotus Elite (1960)
Rene-Bonnet Djet (1962)
TVR Grantura Climax (1960)

Prototype >2.0L
Aston Martin DBR1 (1960)
Aston Martin DP212 (1962)
Ferrari 250TRI/60 (1960) - uses 1958 Scaglietti model
Ferrari 250TR (1960) - uses 1958 Scaglietti model
Ferrari 330GTO (1962)
Jaguar D-Type 3L (1960)
Maserati Tipo 61 (1960)

Prototype <2.0L
Maserati Tipo 60 (1960)
Porsche 718 RSK (1960)
Porsche 718 RS60 (1960)
Porsche 718 RS61 (1961)
Triumph TRS (1960)

Prototype <1.3L
Rene-Bonnet Aerodjet (1962)

From 1962 the prototype class is for closed coupes not open sports models.
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Damon Myrax

Damon Myrax

Anzahl der Beiträge : 31
Anmeldedatum : 2013-03-24
Ort : UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 2:11 pm

CAR PHYSICS

I have made wholesale changes to the physics of all the cars but before you shout at the computer please let me explain...

Because I have included mods from a diverse array of sources there are differences which can be significant in engine, tyre and suspension performance so I have used formula-based models and empirical data to normalise aspects that could otherwise lead to unrealistic lap times between cars. Getting the physics right is a bit of a personal thing which needs to consider: specification accuracy, driveability, AI driveability and accurate car-to-car performance and since most of us have not had the chance to drive these cars in real life its a bit subjective and we will have different feelings on what is right based on how we prioritise the above. So that's my disclaimer on physics before explaining what I have done.


TYRES
Tyres are in my view are most significant area where unwanted differences can exist between car mods. I also have a bugbear when if you exit a corner like St Mary's at Goodwood in 300bhp car on 60's skinny tyres it doesn't lose traction no matter how hard you gun the throttle.
To get around this I have taken one of the files from PnG for a Dunlop tyre and reduced the lateral and longitudinal coefficients until I got the performance I wanted. I have then created a number of generic Dunlop tyre files for different rim, tread and aspect ratios and scaled the diameter, width, rolling resistance and heat transfer models and stored these in the Teams folder rather than duplicating in each Car folder. I have also adjusted the AI modifier to compensate a bit for the reduced grip and avoid them spinning off too often.
One issue I have found when running races with changing weather (using GTR2WGen) is that some AI cars repeatedly pit for new tyres so I’m trying to understand that now but if anyone knows a fix for this issue please let me know.


SUSPENSION
Most mods appear to share the same generic SP files, renaming them for each car and then set wheelbase and track in the HDC files. Mostly they are spot on but I have found a few mods where for examples they use a double wishbone rear suspension when it would have been a De Dion tube. To make this more transparent and simplify it I have created generic SP files in the Teams folder (for example double wish bone front / live rear axle) and referred to these in the HDC files.

I have made some other detail changes in some of the HDC files to add track and wheelbase where not defined and to reduce spring and damper rates where I think they are too stiff. For springs and dampers I have used a formula approach based on some work someone shared on NoGrip years ago (sorry, I forget the author).


BRAKES
As with other parameters I have used a formula approach to braking power, using the simple formula of braking power = k.D^2, where D is diameter and k is 10 for drums and 12 for discs. I haven’t changed the heat transfer or wear models but hope to look at those later.
I tend to set brake balance 60 to 65% to the front for front engine cars to avoid the car becoming unbalanced under heavy braking, which becomes more apparent when the tyre traction is reduced.


ENGINE
I have updated all torque curves and fuel consumption coefficients based on a model I created for a different project years ago. In most cases the curve is not much different to the existing mod but I have done this to normalise across models. I also found some mods when converted to GTR2 wouldn't leave the pit garage under AI control due to the low speed torque characteristics, so this has been fixed with the new curves.

I have also updated the heat transfer models so that now the oil and coolant temperatures gauges give sensible readings and link into the reliability model.


GEARBOX
I have checked gear ratios against the FIA Historic Homologation database and corrected in the few occasions where they were wrong. Some mods have more final drive ratios than I would expect to see and on the production based cars in the British GT series I have cut it back to the standard ratio as I figure the guys running those cars in period would not have had the resources to change ratios and by adding generic tyre files with different aspect ratios I have given some scope to change maximum speed based on circuit.
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Damon Myrax

Damon Myrax

Anzahl der Beiträge : 31
Anmeldedatum : 2013-03-24
Ort : UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 2:14 pm

CIRCUITS

I have tried to use the 60s and 70s versions of circuits that modders have shared to give the feel for the early 60s and have made various changes to the GDB files to match race lengths, daylight hours and keep the AI stable.

I would love to include the Targa Florio in the World Endurance championship but realistically none of the AI would finish and it would probably crash my system so I have replaced it with the 1000km di Monza on the 10K circuit.

I have also tuned down the resistance of sand and gravel in the specialfx.tec file. The reason for this is that at a couple of my favourite circuits; Bridgehampton and Snetterton if you put one wheel off the road its race over, so this makes it a bit more forgiving.

These are the circuits I use and some further changes I have made:

British GT Championship
Snett1964
Goodwood – I have updated the waypoints in the braking zone into Madgwick as some waypoints were missing and some of the AI cars were becoming unstable.
Aintree v3
60oulton
F1C_Silverstone
BrandsHatchGP

World Endurance Championship
70Daytona
70Sebring
70Monza10K – I have updated the AIW file to allow 36 garages
70Nordschleife
60_Lemans – I have updated the AIW file to increase the pit garages to 50 cars, added a simple ‘traditional Le Mans’ start and updated the GRD file to provide an atmospheric view of the cars lined up. This isn’t perfect but just adds to the 60s atmosphere.
Reims

FIA GT Cup
Spa1967
Rouen_1953_71
Clermont69_2 – I have updated the AIW file to add pit garages, grid spots and change the waypoints around the final corner where the pit entrance is. This circuit still needs work on the pitlane as its currently too narrow and the entrance and exit waypoints are wrong, but I like this circuit so much that I keep it in and just turn off fuel and tyre wear to avoid pitstops.
Goodwood
70sMonza – I have updated the AIW file to allow 36 garages
67_Bridgehampton
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Damon Myrax

Damon Myrax

Anzahl der Beiträge : 31
Anmeldedatum : 2013-03-24
Ort : UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 2:15 pm

DRIVERS

I have created RCD files for all the drivers of the day using an excel script to auto-generate the files based on a ranking of 1-5 on driver ability. To avoid drivers turning up in 2 cars I have selected #1 drivers to avoid conflicts.
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Damon Myrax

Damon Myrax

Anzahl der Beiträge : 31
Anmeldedatum : 2013-03-24
Ort : UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 2:16 pm

So that's where I am today.

Hopefully some of this will be of interest/value to others in the community.

DM

jeannomiller, stupornaut and fatguts like this post

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WHIPCRACKER

WHIPCRACKER

Anzahl der Beiträge : 269
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-23
Alter : 68

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 2:29 pm

Wow---this sounds ambitious and super detailed. Wish you great success and will be watching how it develops.

Dragon
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fatguts

fatguts

Anzahl der Beiträge : 759
Anmeldedatum : 2016-02-23
Ort : In my other Shed

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 8:23 pm

I would recommend a new install of GTR2 for the mod when it is finally finished as it looks quit complex to avoid clashes with converted GTL mods already installed In GTR2 by many of us members here, me included. cyclops cyclops
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stupornaut

stupornaut

Anzahl der Beiträge : 52
Anmeldedatum : 2016-02-23

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySat 29 Aug 2020, 9:15 pm

Anything that takes the PnG approach and expands it is 100% cool with me. Best of luck!
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GeeDee
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GeeDee

Anzahl der Beiträge : 3925
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-23
Alter : 71
Ort : 1 hour from Croft and enough distance from Rick & Ney

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptySun 30 Aug 2020, 11:17 pm

What a great thing to do and so complex, I wish you all the very best with this marvellous mod. cheers Punk I Am Not Worthy stroke
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philrob

philrob

Anzahl der Beiträge : 425
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-25
Alter : 65
Ort : Liverpool,UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptyMon 31 Aug 2020, 8:46 am

A great project, very methodical.Its great to see those old cars and tracks being reused and updated.
I spent many years reworking some of those tracks and they gave me great memories and fun.
Best of luck with this.
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Damon Myrax

Damon Myrax

Anzahl der Beiträge : 31
Anmeldedatum : 2013-03-24
Ort : UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptyMon 31 Aug 2020, 10:52 am

Hi Phil,
Thanks for your message. I love those 60s circuits you shared; Melling Crossing into Tatt's corner at Aintree in a 250GT Ferrari is one of my all time favorites
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philrob

philrob

Anzahl der Beiträge : 425
Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-25
Alter : 65
Ort : Liverpool,UK

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptyMon 31 Aug 2020, 2:56 pm

Damon,
so much more could be done with Aintree, today.
I work in RF2 these days, tracks and cars and a big update to Aintree{rf2) would be good. But it wont be happening anytime soon too many projects.
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rainmaker62

rainmaker62

Anzahl der Beiträge : 478
Anmeldedatum : 2010-07-07
Alter : 57
Ort : Georgia, USA

Early 60s GTs Empty
PostSubject: Re: Early 60s GTs   Early 60s GTs EmptyMon 31 Aug 2020, 11:51 pm

Damon, Good on ya! That sounds like quite the project.
Best of luck to ya. I do what I can with engines and gearboxes and susp, just wish I had more experience with it all.
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