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 New Mods & Tyres

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rickoshea

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Anmeldedatum : 2010-07-08
Ort : Overlooking the thames & F***ing miles away from Ney's Home!!

PostSubject: New Mods & Tyres   Mon 03 Jan 2011, 7:56 am

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that all the latest mods for GTL
are using banana skins instead of tyres.
Ok, so you download a new mod, it looks good & sounds great ingame,
then onto the track, your'e going down the straight, the first bend is up
ahead so you take your foot off the gas = & the ****ing car spins round & round
ending up in the sand or a wall (frustrated)
Now i used to do a bit of testing for Vic Lee motors years ago, with capri 3.2s
& even on the the wettest of tracks i did not get this happen, & these mods are supposed to be track cars.

So come on guys, spend a bit more time on the tyres & physics, please Sad
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Lower Level
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Ort : Corner Office, GTL parking garage.

PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Mon 03 Jan 2011, 8:25 pm

It could be because many of them are from rFactor. I wonder if that'd be part of it as that behaviour (wooden wheels on ice I call it.) is why I don't like rFactor.
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speedracer_GTL
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Tue 04 Jan 2011, 1:15 am

Den. wrote:
It could be because many of them are from rFactor. I wonder if that'd be part of it as that behaviour (wooden wheels on ice I call it.) is why I don't like rFactor.

I wouldn't go blaming rfactor for that - it is some modders that can't get the idea from GPL that slippery = real out of their heads.

The F1SR F1 mods have huge amounts of grip & I find them quite easy to drive up to 95% then they get difficult at the 100% limit. There are other mods out there with realistic grip levels, you just need to test and discard, or modify.
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rickoshea

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Ort : Overlooking the thames & F***ing miles away from Ney's Home!!

PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Tue 04 Jan 2011, 7:41 am

If anyone is interested you can (as a temporary fix) use the lines in the .tyr file from -
Slipcurve down as far as it gets to radius etc, from the eSR Classic mod or the Escorts 2008
mod by Philh959 at NAGP. both mods can be found on eSport-Racing.de or NAGP for the escorts.
I have not changed the radius or diameter of tyres just the grip, the cars still breakaway
at the backend if you push them too hard, but now you can feel when they start to go, as in
real life!
so now i can compete in a race with the 2002ti, opel etc without them doing a routine from
dancing on ICE. cheers
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tdurrett



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Anmeldedatum : 2010-09-22

PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Tue 04 Jan 2011, 12:58 pm

I just looked at a couple of .tyr files...I''ll try copying from another car from any
"equvalent" car to see if it improves the handling.
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rickoshea

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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Wed 05 Jan 2011, 7:48 am

Just use the slipcurve lines etc. Example-
[SLIPCURVE]
Name="Lateral"
Step=0.009000 // Slip step
DropoffFunction=1.0
Data:
0.000000 0.174836 0.349483 0.518060 0.668882 0.790665 0.878928 0.936783 0.971287 0.989751
0.997978 1.000000 0.999909 0.999649 0.999224 0.998638 0.997900 0.997019 0.996006


Try to keep these lines as they are-

FRONT: // Arguments:ALL,FRONT,REAR,LEFT,RIGHT,FRONTLEFT, FRONTRIGHT,REARLEFT,REARRIGHT
DryLatLong=(1.333, 1.357) // Lateral/longitudinal coefficients in dry weather
WetLatLong=(1.333, 1.357) // Lateral/longitudinal coefficients in wet weather
Radius=0.292 // Radius of tire
RadiusRPM=1.01e-6 // Increased radius per unit RPM
Width=0.215 // Width of tire
SpringBase=45000.0 // Base spring rate with no pressure ( 1060lb/in @ 170kpsi)
SpringkPa=700.00 // Spring rate per unit pressure
Damper=1500.0 // Damping rate of tire
SpeedEffects=(325.5,10.0) // Speed at which grip drops to half (m/s, 0.0 to disable), speed load equivalency (see above)

If you change these lines which apply to tyre size & radius then a lot of the time
you then have to mess around with the cars .Eng file, as a lot of cars will not leave the
pits when you change tyre size.
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joeschmoe
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Wed 05 Jan 2011, 8:27 pm

Ahaaa ! Thanks for the schoolin' rickoshea, when I come across a tire that you know wouldn't be that bad, I change the DryLatLong value from say a 1.333 to 1.433, usually less. That may explain why I'll get outright "better" grip, though at the limit, it just doesn't "feel right".....
Off to try this, ....I wonder how many .tyr files I've destroy-, err, changed.......
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WHIPCRACKER

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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 3:49 am

I guess this is a case of " Hey Joe---stop muckin' about with your rubbers mate--lol
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Lower Level
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 4:35 am

I don't use 'em myself........... Very Happy Twisted Evil Razz
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rickoshea

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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 7:07 am

Watch out for this line in the tyre files- its in front/rear also slick, wet compound etc...

LatCurve="Lateral" // Slip angle curve (data uses normalized angle)
BrakingCurve="Braking" // Slip ratio curve under braking
TractiveCurve="Accel" // Slip ratio curve under acceleration

Some tyr files have- LatCurve="Default" }
BrakingCurve="Default" or something else
TractiveCurve="Default" }
so you'll have to change these lines to match the slipcurve, brakecurve etc, or you'll get a ctd!
Don't forget to backup the original .tyr files first (joeschmoe) or like me, you will have to search through a 1tb harddrive for it Embarassed
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GeeDee
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 9:41 am

@ Ricoshea
Quote :
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that all the latest mods for GTL
are using banana skins instead of tyres.

Yes some cars are slippery, but play around with the set ups. Changing the tyre grip to what suits you is really a form of cheating... isn't it???

Just about any car can be made to handle better without resorting to doing that. It's half of the fun of simracing to be able to tame a car.

Gee
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tdurrett



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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 12:51 pm

It does explain why some cars are completely off--that it's not my driving. Since I don't
drive online (they usually have a specific carset to use), copying the slipcurve values from
an equivalent-class car makes sense.

Now I have an excuse for those evil Mini Coopers--I cannot drive them without going
buttfirst whenever I hit the brakes!
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 2:45 pm

Well, the 1310 is just a matter of tire pressures as the default ones are waaay high.
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GeeDee
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 3:53 pm

@ tdurrett

Quote :
It does explain why some cars are completely off--that it's not my driving. Since I don't
drive online (they usually have a specific carset to use), copying the slipcurve values from
an equivalent-class car makes sense.

Now I have an excuse for those evil Mini Coopers--I cannot drive them without going
buttfirst whenever I hit the brakes!

If you are going to copy stuff over from other cars why don't you just stick with one you can drive? Every car is different and it's part of the SIM experience and challenge to master them. You really may as well just play Arcade driving games.

You have to start to understand a little about the handling of cars. For example, the Mini is front wheel drive and they under-steer badly unless you are on and off the throttle or you keeping dabbing the brakes all of the time going around a corner or applying so much power that you are roasting the front tyres badly.

The back end of FF cars (front engined front wheel drive) is very light so brake balance should be mostly to the front of the car and soften the rear end to give that swinging tail end a bit more grip.

Once you start mastering one type of car you should get more confidence to try others that haven't had there files altered with.

A good set up can pinch large chunks of time from your laps.

There are only 2 converted cars in GTR2 and GTL that I have found really hard to drive whatever you do as they have massive over-steer and an extremely sloppy rear end.

Gee
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joeschmoe
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 11:22 pm

@ whipcracker & den - no glove, no love, though I prefer, no pill, no drill.........

@ rickoshea - nothing gets changed without a .bak, or a copy first, I learned the hard way already also. Though a TB search makes my "issue" sound trivial.......edit - as you mentioned there have been a couple that were so bad, I don't care WHO said it was "realistic", it was wrong, even bias plies weren't that bad......

@ geedee - I do mess with setups, bars, pressures, springs & camber mostly, caster doesn't seem to do much in simbin. But, there have been a couple of mods that were obviously "wrong" on the tire front. I did some roadracing back in the 70's - early 80's, and trust me, I know about slippery rubber, ABSOLUTELY no comparison to tires today.....rambling......., there were a few mods in the last 3-4 months that were pretty bad, almost as if the tires were forgotten in the conversion, I can't remember which ones at the moment, but one of them was a prototype I do remember, the other a vintage car ?, they really did plow and slide bad. Anyways, I just didn't want to spend a whole lot of time trying to coax a second or so from a setup that wasn't going to help. I will agree that a great deal of the fun of these sims is taking a stock car and dropping 4-6 seconds or more from a "stock" download, I just don't have a bunch of time spend on setup. nap time......



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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 11:33 pm

My 'setup' consists of final drive, lower the coast, set the steering lock (usually around 18), ocaasionally do tire pressures and DRIVE!!! Haha.

And I'm 'fixed' so....... Twisted Evil
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joeschmoe
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 11:35 pm

hahahahahah........touche'................
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 06 Jan 2011, 11:39 pm

Personally, I don't get all the anal crap in simracing about set ups as in real racing I'd think that would be the job of the crew/mechanic and the driver just, well, drives. What a Face
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rickoshea

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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Fri 07 Jan 2011, 8:08 am

I seem to heve opened a can of worms here!
i'm not trying to takeaway the realism & turn it into arcade, just trying to make some of
these cars drivable.
for example, i tried the beetle yesterday (no offence to the modder) beetles don't drive
like this one, i did the normal thing, down the straight, at the 150 marker took my foot off
the gas & round & round i went. cars don't do that! only if they aquaplane..
this to me is further away from "realism" than altering the tyre files.
i cannot remember any real car i have driven, road & track, that just spin wildly out of control
when you remove your foot from the gas pedal..


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GeeDee
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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Fri 07 Jan 2011, 9:46 am

Quote :
i cannot remember any real car i have driven, road & track, that just spin wildly out of control
when you remove your foot from the gas pedal..

When your braking try applying a little power at the same time as this gives more stability... it may sound a bit of a silly thing to do but racing drivers actually do this in real life. Ayrton Senna is a great example of this technique and your foot is also on the gas pedal sooner for coming out of corners faster.

Takes a bit of practice though so don't expect great things first time.

Gee

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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Fri 07 Jan 2011, 2:31 pm

Yeah, in the same vein, I find it was a LOT harder to drive as a sim (driving the car rather then the game) with my G-25 pedals as the lack of resistance makes braking (For me) all but impossible, and with my CSP pedals it's a whole different ballgame!!
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stevie_mo



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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Wed 02 May 2012, 8:07 pm

For me I found that there was too much variation between tyres for cars which were supposed to in the same class. So I decided to use the tyres from PNG2 in a bid to standardise the levels of grip a little bit and it "seems" to be working....
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nikbear



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PostSubject: Re: New Mods & Tyres   Thu 03 May 2012, 2:03 am

Fiat 2300s,VW Beetle,Renault R8 Gordini,.....these are the cars that I just can't get round a bend without picking them out of the scenery Sad
Have tried various settings but just can't seem to get them to handle Question
The Fiat just oversteers like crazy,while the other two let go whenever you take your foot of the accelerator,at any given speed Question
They are excellent mods(Although the Gordini could do with an update Wink ) but the handling Rolling Eyes
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