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 Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)

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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Wed 17 Oct 2018, 10:23 am

I wasn't sure where this post should go, so please move it if it's in the wrong place.

While setting up my field for Le Mans 1964, I came across a car that as far as I know has not been modded: the Porsche 904/8, which had a 2-litre flat 8 engine producing 176.5 kW / 240 PS / 237 hp (DIN) and 205 Nm / 151 ft-lb torque.

The car qualified 18th and 21st but neither finished. In my research I discovered that the dimensions of the car and weight characteristics were all virtually identical to the 904/4

I did come across an anomaly in the original 904 mod created by Butch Coolidge et al:

The base drag in the .hdc is set at .20, which is difficult to understand, given that all the resources I have found say that the drag coefficient of the 904 was .33. In fact there are few cars, even today, that get anywhere near .20 - so I need to understand whether this was a workaround to get the mod to perform like the real thing, or do I misunderstand the 'BodyDragBase=(0.20)' parameter?

I have created the 2.0 flat eight engine and put it in the 904/6 .hdc and left everything else pretty much the same (cannot find where one sets the fuel tank capacity though).

I tested by letting the AI drive the 904/8, a 904/6 and a 904/4 at Le Mans 60, and the 904/8 times compared well to the times recorded, being about 10 seconds faster than the 904/4 and 5 seconds better than the 904/6.

All that I need now is the skins for the two cars, #29 and #30, which can be found here: (http://www.racingsportscars.com/suffix/archive/Porsche/904/__8.html) - I am still working my way through the tutorials and setting up the software and learning, so I am not ready to do these two, need someone to do a proper job of creating the authentic originals. BUT the problem is, there are no pictures of the cars as they were then.

Here are some pictures of the cars as they are now or were when the pics were taken. They may have been painted since 1964:

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/cg/6479/Porsche-904-8.html

The chassis in question are 008 and 009 but I would be happy if they both looked like 009, they were both Porsche Works cars



Anyone please willing to help and offer additional advice, I may not have considered some variables/elements; I do this partly for my own convenience but also to learn.

Thanks!
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WHIPCRACKER

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Anmeldedatum : 2010-06-23
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Wed 17 Oct 2018, 2:32 pm

Base drag is not really comparable to real world CD numbers but proportionally between different cars it still works.

For one thing most modders have the tire rolling resistance almost twice as high as it is in real life therefore the base drag number needs to make that compensation in order for the car to reach the correct real world top speed.

When I do physics I use both base drag and rolling resistance changes to compliment each other. For example---Porsche maybe .23 and rolling resistance of say 1400 f and 1500 rear.

Just an example --not my real numbers since I haven't looked.

LOL---turns out these ARE my real numbers---memory 1---alzheimers 0 !!!! Punk thumbup
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Wed 17 Oct 2018, 3:08 pm

Ah! Understood, thanks! So in effect as long as we get the desired result, and the performance of the car corresponds to the real world, how we get there doesn't matter (within reason, of course, I am very much a purist and prefer the numbers to be as close to the actual ones as possible)

@WHIPCRACKER wrote:
LOL---turns out these ARE my real numbers---memory 1---alzheimers 0 !!!!

Very Happy always a happy moment when my memory turns out to still be functioning; at my age, that's to be appreciated...


Last edited by Uncomman on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Muddie7272

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Wed 17 Oct 2018, 3:27 pm

Hi!

Found good quality Skale Models of the Cars here:

https://www.carmodel.com/de/spark-model/s3435/1-43/porsche/904-8-team-porsche-system-engineering-n-29-24h-le-mans-1964-e-barth-h-linge/65893

https://www.carmodel.com/de/spark-model/s3436/1-43/porsche/904-8-n-30-24h-le-mans-1964-c-davis-g-mitter/93085

With Spotlights and ID-Light on the Roof

There was a Car No.28 in the Entry List, but no Driver/No Pics

Greetings
Muddie
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Wed 17 Oct 2018, 3:33 pm

Perfect thanks Muddie, just shows I didn't really look properly for the cosmetic appearance, was more focused on the engine and technical specs.

They look great, now I understand what racingsportscars.com referred to about the red and blue. I could probably do this in time, but given my current knowledge in this area, it would be a LONG time!

There MUST be a skinner who could do this in less time then it takes to make a cup of coffee! (Okay I may be exaggerating Smile )
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ney.dias

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Thu 18 Oct 2018, 6:29 pm

In fact, would be an excellent aquisition to our beloved GTL, if we have the 904/8 version. Thinking top denkend
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 5:27 am

Okay it looks like I may have to do the skins myself, so you will need to be patient; I don't have as much time as I'd like, also have to make a living (damn) and I'm still learning. I also have to get permission from Butch to add this car in its two variants.

Otherwise it will have to be developed from scratch, although it would be nice to be able to start with a base that had most of the variables already done. Perhaps I should PM Butch, although I'm not keen on invading the privacy of someone so busy and important.
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jeannomiller
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 6:13 am

Have to look on an external HD whether there have been addon skins for the 904 - maybe also the skins #29 and #30 required.
It's a real shame what has been lost due to NoGrip closure.

Will have a look on sunday evening as I'm not online over the weekend Laughing Cool

_________________
So long.

Jeannomiller
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joeschmoe
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 7:16 am

mmmmmm...........
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philrob

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 11:48 am

I did a quick No 29 skin this morning as a distraction from a couple of tracks i am working on that are giving me problems.Also include a Car file wth a couple of changes, more will be needed to get into game." />

new link to 29 and 30

https://www.mediafire.com/file/0dl77brs82705aa/porsche904skins.rar/file


Last edited by philrob on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 12:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 2:50 pm

Superb. MUCH appreciated! I have everything else necessary to make this work, will test asap, one skin to go!

I Am Not Worthy thumbup2
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philrob

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 4:03 pm

deleted


Last edited by philrob on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 4:39 pm

Looks GREAT thanks, will put them together with everything else and test.

Again, much appreciated.
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z1000a2



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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 8:56 pm

Thanks phil
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jghinkle



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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 10:21 pm

@Uncomman wrote:


I have created the 2.0 flat eight engine and put it in the 904/6 .hdc and left everything else pretty much the same (cannot find where one sets the fuel tank capacity though).


Look for this line:

FuelRange=(1.0, 1.0, 70)
FuelSetting=34

First setting is what it calculates the fuel capacity from, second setting is what increments it increases by, and third setting is maximum number of increments. In this case for fuel setting, it calculates from 1 liter, in 1 liter increments for a maximum capacity of 70 liters. Base garage setting is starting with 34 liters.
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Fri 19 Oct 2018, 10:31 pm

Thanks very much, makes perfect sense. Not something someone could arrive at intuitively though; someone should write a glossary/explanation of what entries mean.

Now its just the gearbox and we will be ready to present it for Butch's approval.
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Sat 20 Oct 2018, 7:16 am

I installed them both, cars run fine, but they are both plain silver, no colours or numbers. I looked in the tex.gtl file and I see references to files I don't have that refer to the original car I used as the base, like BODY2_MASK.DDS and WINDOWS.DDS so I assume those have to be done before the cars will look right?

I checked all the file locations and naming conventions, everything else is correct.
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Sat 20 Oct 2018, 9:22 am

I opened tex.gtl with Geditor and I found all those files: should I merely save them as the prefixes for these cars? So I would save them with the correct name prefixes (e.g. 29_8_ instead of 18_6_ ) and then import them and then delete the previous ones? That is what seems intuitive to me, will try and if it doesn't work at least I will have learned something.
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Sat 20 Oct 2018, 9:56 am

Nope. Didn't work. I feel like I'm on the right track but need guidance, after all these are all the pertinent files so it has to be in the tex.gtl or ultra_tex.gtl that my problem exists. The .CAR files and .HDC file are correct and the CAS file applies to all the cars in the mod
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philrob

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Sat 20 Oct 2018, 10:11 am

i dropped the skin into the folder for car 18_6 and renamed skin the same as the tex in ultratex gtl
ie 18_6_porsche_904gts_body1.dds
this was for testing only.( this is loaded before the original skin)

You need to make a new folder and rename it for example:

29_8_PORSCHE_904GTS_BODY1.dds into new folder called 29_8
then add all the files from an original folder and rename them correctly that includes the contents of the GTL files.
Thats how i would do it, there may be other methods.
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Sat 20 Oct 2018, 10:23 am

@philrob wrote:


You need to make a new folder and rename it for example:

29_8_PORSCHE_904GTS_BODY1.dds into new folder called 29_8
then add all the files from an original folder and rename them correctly that includes the contents of the GTL files.
Thats how i would do it, there may be other methods.

That's pretty much what I did, but I must have made a mistake. Will go over it again.

Thanks philrob, I'm learning a lot! Also finally used my GIMP DDS plugin, so getting more competent by the day!

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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Sat 20 Oct 2018, 10:55 am

Went through everything, as far as I can tell it's all correct, but I must be missing something obvious, still have silver cars with no numbers or colours that go well.

The CAR file refers to the new HDC (PORSCHE_904GTS_8.hdc, which clearly works) and the PORSCHE_904GTS.cas.

Here are the Tex.gtl and Ultratex.gtl files:




And here is the folder:



Perhaps I am too close to it, cannot see why it should not work.

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philrob

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Sat 20 Oct 2018, 11:12 am

are the cars named correctly at the top of the CAR file

29_8 - GTC - Porsche 904 GTS, Simulation

and at the bottom:

Number=29_8
just a guess looking at what you have not mentioned.
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Uncomman

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Sat 20 Oct 2018, 11:23 am

You meant the CAR file but I changed it and BINGO!




Thanks!!!! thumbup2

Now to repeat the process for #30, check on some technical details (the fuel tank capacity and gear ratios) and we are ready to roll!

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philrob

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche 904/8 Carrera (GTS)   Sat 20 Oct 2018, 11:32 am

Yes i did change it later lol, working across too many sims gtl,gtr2,rf1 and rf2
glad its working.
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