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 CTD due to engine braking

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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: CTD due to engine braking   Sun 16 Sep 2018, 6:59 pm

I cannot get the game to run suddenly, keep getting CTD and this is in the trace:

vehload.cpp   732: RPM-torque brake > throttle @ 0.000000

I have been making changes to engine files but did not change engine braking parameters and I have now moved all the new mods into a temp folder, but cannot get rid of this problem. The number doesn't give me an audit trail so cannot find the culprit.

Any ideas please?
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jodelmor



Anzahl der Beiträge : 36
Anmeldedatum : 2010-08-19
Alter : 66
Ort : Valencia (SPAIN)

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Sun 16 Sep 2018, 10:01 pm

I´m not an expert but I had a similar situation with a mod I downloaded. Following the instructions I found on the web (can't remember where) I was able to solve it...

- Read lines the trace file to identify which car is causing the CTD.
- Then open the engine file for that car as you usually do to edit it.
- Look at the 1st line of the RPM, Brake Torque, Engine Torque table.
- You'll find the 2nd value (brake torque) is higher/bigger than the 3rd value (engine torque).
- Change this pair of values to make 3rd one bigger than 2nd one.
- Save your modified .eng file.

The trace file message is telling it all when you read it: Torque brake > (bigger than) throttle (engine torque) at 0.0 RPM

From what I´ve read, the underlying "technical" reason seems to be that the car engine has not enough power to overcome the braking torque and is unable start.

ps  Could this also be a solution for cars not coming out from the pits ? Why not give it a try ?

Hope it helps you... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Sun 16 Sep 2018, 11:41 pm

Thanks jodelmor and I think you are right, but my key problem is that I have no idea how to "Read lines the trace file to identify which car is causing the CTD." There is a number (732) but I have no idea what it means, it's not a car number it looks like a code line number (from my experience with programming but I am not familiar with this one)

I know how to do everything else. I have been changing engine settings in 5 engines (to solve the cars leaving the pits problem as you say) but none of them is the problem. So now I have to do trial and error because I don't know how to use the number in the trace file.


Last edited by Uncomman on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Mon 17 Sep 2018, 12:01 am

Just an additional note: I am using "Tom's Engine Shop" and it is impossible to set the second value higher than the third in the app, so this must have been done manually in a mod I downloaded, not one of the ones I have been working on.
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Mon 17 Sep 2018, 8:21 am

Going through all the mods, I discovered that MANY engines have the second value set higher than the the third, so the engine setting is not where this problem is located. In the .eng file, the values, as I understand them, represent rpm, engine braking, and torque, in that order in the brackets:

RPMTorque=( 0.0, -22.6, 0.0)

So the trace, telling me that brake > throttle at 0.00 rpm, uses a strange terminology if it is referring to the .eng settings, since 'torque' and 'throttle' are not the same thing.

An since many engines that have been working in the sim have such a setting, I must conclude that this is not where the problem lies. I need a place where there is a setting that relates the brake to the throttle.

I have now been through ALL the mods in the Game Data folder and I am still getting CTD as soon as I try to practice or race. I can look at all the cars, and they are all in their categories, but I cannot drive anything.

vehload.cpp 732: RPM-torque brake > throttle @ 0.000000
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Mon 17 Sep 2018, 8:59 am

So I have now removed all the added mods, and I still get CTD:

tire_manager 1185: Non-existent tire brand ""

which suggests that one of the .hdc files allocated a tire not known to the sim? I will have to go through them all, not so many now, then I will add the other mods one by one and test. Sheesh.
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Mon 17 Sep 2018, 10:20 am

I have now been through all the cars .hdc files, all the tires are correct and all the tires are in the teams folder. So now I am stuck...
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fatguts

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 441
Anmeldedatum : 2016-02-23
Ort : Midlands North of Watford

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Mon 17 Sep 2018, 11:39 am

I use toms engine shop if you start changing things manually then you save it, it goes cranky and always ends up with a CDT and have to go back to the original engine file (I always back up the original).


If you use it as it should be used all is fine.
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Mon 17 Sep 2018, 12:52 pm

I will go through all of the engines again, but I have only used Tom's engine shop, so no manula fiddling. But now I have the problem with the tires...

I think I will reinstall the game and copy the data files over one by one with testing inbetween
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jodelmor



Anzahl der Beiträge : 36
Anmeldedatum : 2010-08-19
Alter : 66
Ort : Valencia (SPAIN)

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Mon 17 Sep 2018, 5:39 pm

Hi Uncomman,

I agree the wording the programmer assigned to that error message is not very helpful.

I did some testing by changing values on a given .eng file and I was able to reproduce the error message in the trace file, but that didn't cause any CTD.
My apologies if I directed you in a not so good direction. Crying or Very sad

btw. May I suggest you to run "in private test mode" when testing any mod you're working on ? This will avoid any car other than yours being loaded to memory afaik.
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hmmguy

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 726
Anmeldedatum : 2012-04-26
Alter : 56

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Mon 17 Sep 2018, 8:20 pm

Given the hundreds of cars I have done the physics for with the Absolute Le Mans mod series, I always add my own class line so as I only have a specific car appearing. This makes it never an issue with a different car causing a ctd. When setting the ai to run track specific times I add 1 more car and assuming the initial car didn't ctd and it now does ctd, it's obvious which is the cause.
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Tue 18 Sep 2018, 5:43 am

Yeah hmmguy I am normally quite organised in that respect, I usually use my SIM_TEST class for testing but on this occasion I was already testing some new mods in that class so I got lazy. I have learned.

No apology necessary at all jodelmor, not your fault at all. If there is any blame here it lies with me.

Quote :
I did some testing by changing values on a given .eng file and I was able to reproduce the error message in the trace file, but that didn't cause any CTD.

Interesting. Once I work out which engine it is (and I will get there) I am sure it will be something obvious and simple.

I generally don't drive the cars in testing, I let the AI do the job and occasionally will do some driving myself, most of the testing I am doing is to establish whether the mod fits in a given class.
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Tue 18 Sep 2018, 2:54 pm

Can you believe it? After reinstalling GTL and copying across my backup of tracks, sounds, tyres and talent, and over 200 mods one by one and testing every time, now suddenly there is no problem.

I don't know about the cars leaving the pits issue, will have to start again, but the game operates perfectly with the same data, so it could not have been a mod that was the problem. The Minis still won't go out, but that is a lot better than before.

Also, how can I get the game to 'manage' the championships? I know I can use Muddie's menu but I want to enable selection of specific cars for specific tracks, e.g. Targa Florio.
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Muddie7272

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 172
Anmeldedatum : 2015-01-26

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Tue 18 Sep 2018, 3:43 pm

Hey UC!

Go to the GamData Folder and look in the CupStages.cdb-File with Editor. CupStages Organized here. Every Cupstage you can Modify in the .gdb-files. You can Create New one or Modify the Old. The Game Filter in the Top refers to the Classes in the .car-Files at the Bottom. I had a little Helper Called Multi Edit Tool. In this Programm every Car of the Game wre listed and you can tell the Program to open every .car File with editor. You can sort by car-classes and so on. Very nice Program.

Greetings
Muddie
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Tue 18 Sep 2018, 4:52 pm

Hey Muddie - yes I know about the Cupstage.gdb - I learned from the post where you explained about classes. That's already done, but it does not help because I still have to win the challenge before that (I have to start again now) to open up the next Cup I have created. I want to bypass that, having done it before, I want to have all the championships available so I can choose to run the next round in any of them at any point in time. I also want to change the cars competing to suit the track,

I find it easy to manually add cars to championships, so I don't need a tool, just a way to remove the kiddie aspect of the game and get on with racing the classes I have created. I have all tracks and cars available so its merely a matter of setting up classes for each cup and then holding the races, but I cannot do so because I have to win each cup stage in order to progress, which I cannot see myself repeating. So at the moment I have to record the series results and points for makes as well as drivers in a spreadsheet. Unless I am not understanding you?
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Tue 18 Sep 2018, 5:01 pm

Wait: Are you saying I can change the existing Cupstages A-D and I will have no problems?

I just noticed that I can now somehow access ANY Cup stage, (maybe TG2001.DYN?) and I just put my own Cups and classes in there and it's PERFECT - thanks!

I still cannot allocate points to makes or change the entry list/cars for a given round of the championship, but I can do that manually.


Last edited by Uncomman on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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hmmguy

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 726
Anmeldedatum : 2012-04-26
Alter : 56

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Tue 18 Sep 2018, 8:04 pm

the cars leaving the pits issue is usually related to either the torque being too low at lower rpms or 1st gear is too high...might be a combination of both as well.
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Wed 19 Sep 2018, 5:49 am

Only one problem with TG2001.DYN - it suddenly switches car types while scrolling through teams in the showroom?
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Wed 19 Sep 2018, 8:10 am

And now, this is back, irrespective of which car/class/category I drive (from the trace)

vehload.cpp 732: RPM-torque brake > throttle @ 0.000000

Everything is fine in the menus. If this was a mod I would expect this to happen in one category, not in all?

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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Wed 19 Sep 2018, 8:43 am

Worked out what was causing the problem, although I don't understand the cause-effect dynamics.

I went back to the original Cupstages.cbd and everything works again. It seems you cannot change just the Cupstages.cbd alone, there must be other changes required somewhere else.

I noticed some references in the Game.dic file but that just looks like a glossary.

So it seems only Muddie's option of adding E,F,G,H Challenges is available, Will do that again, hopefully 4 additions will be enough.
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Wed 19 Sep 2018, 9:32 am

Done! All my classes are back in and working, Muddie's menu in place (thanks again Muddie) but would like to know whether there is a way:

1. To add points for 'makes' not just drivers
2. To customise the field for different rounds
3. To change the number of laps for different rounds
4. To make races time-defined not lap-defined
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Muddie7272

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 172
Anmeldedatum : 2015-01-26

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Wed 19 Sep 2018, 2:54 pm

I talked about The Program "Multi Edit Tool" here it is:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/jy1wn8b93o6aofp/Multi_Edit_Tool_v1_0_by_gogo404.zip/file

Go to Options/preferences and choose notepad.exe as Text Editor. notepad.exe is well known as Windows Editor. Now one click and you can open every File with Editor.
Look at the left Bottom. You see the Buttons "Folders" and "Classes". Click on Classes and you see all classes which are used in your Game. If you click on one Class and the Program show you all Cars, which drive in this Class.

Many thangs to gogo404 for this little helper.

Greetings
Muddie
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Uncomman

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Anzahl der Beiträge : 61
Anmeldedatum : 2018-08-28
Ort : Up the road from Kyalami

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Wed 19 Sep 2018, 3:43 pm

I just took it for a spin, that's a SUPERB tool! BIG Up, gogo404!

Again huge thanks Muddie, will help a LOT.

I use Notepad ++ btw, have a long history in IT, these days as I get older I design websites to supplement my income

I promise I will get less irritating and ask less questions once I know my way around Neutral
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GeeDee
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Ort : 1 hour from Croft and enough distance from Rick & Ney

PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Thu 20 Sep 2018, 3:40 pm

Asking sensible questions like you do is also helpful to others as they can also try to do what you are doing.

thumbup2
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hmmguy

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PostSubject: Re: CTD due to engine braking   Thu 20 Sep 2018, 10:26 pm

GeeDee wrote:
Asking sensible questions like you do is also helpful to others as they can also try to do what you are doing.

thumbup2

+1 Agreed as I too have learned from your questions.
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